The Grand Council (You Were There!!!) And Many Other Issues

Let me quote from from a talk given by Brian K. Ashton, a general authority in the LDS church:

"In the premortal world, we were born as spirits to Heavenly Parents and lived with Them as a family. They knew us, taught us, and loved us. We wanted very much to be like our Heavenly Father." (click on the triangle to listen to his 10 minute talk):
General Conference Address: The Father

During the time we existed before Adam and Eve were put on this earth, there was a gigantic meeting which involved Heavenly Father and all of His children who would live on this planet, including you!! The meeting was called the Grand Council, but it is also known as the Council In Heaven.

The meeting was about Heavenly Father's Plan of Salvation and who would be the Savior of the world, among many other issues.

  • The Creation, the Fall, mortality, the Atonement, the Resurrection, and the Final Judgment were contemplated and explained in the council (TPJS, p. 220, 348-50; MD, pp. 163-64; see also First Estate). The plan anticipated mistakes from inexperience and sin and provided remedies. Many spirits were foreordained to specific roles and missions during their mortal experience, conditional upon their willingness and faithfulness in the premortal sphere and their promised continued faithfulness upon the earth. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained, "Every man who has a calling to minister to the inhabitants of the world was ordained to that very purpose in the Grand Council of heaven before this world was. I suppose I was ordained to this very office in that Grand Council" (TPJS, p. 365; cf. 1 Pet. 1:20; Jer. 1:5; Abr. 3:22-23).
    BYU Website - Council In Heaven

Three of the key people in that council, other than Heavenly Father, were Jehovah (i.e. Jesus Christ), Lucifer (i.e. satan) and Adam.

As a minimum, both Jehovah and Lucifer proposed plans to be accepted by the Father.

Jehovah's plan (i.e. Christ's plan) was a plan of free agency and no claim was made by Christ that all of Heavenly Father's children would be saved.

Lucifer's plan (i.e. satan's plan) was a plan of compulsion (there would be no free agency) and his plan guaranteed to save all men and women without losing a single soul.

Another major participant in this massive meeting was Adam, also known as Michael. Michael was essentially the Chief General of Jehovah. It is likely that it was Adam and others who physically cast Lucifer and his followers out of the Grand Council.

Heavenly Father chose the plan of Christ (see Moses chapter 4 in the Pearl of Great Price which is linked to below). Instead of accepting the decision of Heavenly Father, Lucifer rebelled and took a "third part" of those at the Grand Council with him. This would have been roughly 30 BILLION spirits!!!! The punishment for following Lucifer was that his followers would never receive physical bodies!!

In addition, Adam and Eve were chosen to be the parents of all mankind. Adam was a great prophet, second only to Christ in priesthood authority according to Joseph Smith.

  • Although Lucifer made a false offer of salvation without individual responsibility, he gained many followers, and "war in heaven" ensued. Michael, the archangel (who later was Adam), led the "forces" of Jehovah in a battle for the loyalties of the Father's spirit children. The exact nature of this war is not detailed in the scriptures, but there can be little doubt that it involved the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ and how mankind was to be saved. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained, "The contention in heaven was-Jesus said there would be certain souls that would not be saved; and the devil said he could save them all, and laid his plans before the grand council, who gave their vote in favor of Jesus Christ. So the devil rose up in rebellion against God, and was cast down, with all who put up their heads for him" (TPJS, p. 357).

    Lucifer and his followers, who were "a third part of the hosts of heaven" (Rev. 12:4; D&C 29:36), made open warfare against the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost, and the eternal Plan of Salvation and were cast down to earth (cf. Jude 1:6), eternally deprived of being born into mortality with physical bodies, and never to have salvation (TPJS, pp. 181, 297-98). So tragic was the fall of Lucifer that "the heavens wept over him" (D&C 76:26).

    Known on earth as Satan or the devil, Lucifer and his followers still continue the war against the work and the people of God, being permitted to do so to give people opportunity to exercise agency, being "enticed by the one or the other" (2 Ne. 2:16-25). They will persist until the day of judgment, when Michael, the archangel, and his armies will ultimately prevail and cast them out forever (D&C 88:111-115).
    BYU Website - War In Heaven

In this chapter (in the Book of Moses, in the Pearl of Great Price) is a little about the Grand Council and the story of Adam and Eve partaking of the forbidden fruit and being cast out of the Garden of Eden:
Pearl of Great Price: Moses 4

The Pearl of Great Price was first published, in its current form, in Liverpool, England in 1851 by one of the apostles of the church - Franklin D. Richards, but was not canonized until 1880.

As part of God's plan, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to "fall" so that mankind could have free agency to make their own decisions:

Here are other verses on the war in heaven:

  • 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael [i.e. Adam] and his angels fought against the dragon [i.e. satan who is frequently called Lucifer]; and the dragon fought and his angels,
    8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
    9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    Revelations 12:7-9

One of the questions I wondered about was who physically cast Lucifer and his followers out of the Grand Council?? While the answer is probably Michael (i.e. Adam), if Michael was the one, Michael used the power of Jehovah to do it. Moses 4:3-4 says:

  • 3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
    4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.
    Pearl of Great Price: Moses 4:3-4

Note that verse 3 does not say that "mine Only Begotton" cast satan out of the Grand Council, it says that "by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down." As Michael was and still is the Savior's top general, it likely would have been Michael and his forces who cast Lucifer (and his followers) out of heaven. Many, many billions of people followed Lucifer!!! Possibly more than 30,000,000,000 spirits followed Lucifer as I mentioned above!!

However, I have not seen any authoritative statement which specifically says who physically cast satan and his followers out of the Grand Council. But the evidence is pretty overwhelming that it was Adam/Michael and his forces.

See also: Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28.

The Grand Council is also known as the "Council in Heaven." I will talk more about our existence before Adam and Eve were put on this planet in a moment.

Satan and the Theory of Evolution

So what does all of this have to do with the theory of evolution? A lot!!!

Because Adam and his forces were the likely force that cast Lucifer and his followers out of heaven, and because Michael/Adam was Jehovah's top general, Lucifer hates Adam and Lucifer wants people to not even believe that Adam and Eve ever existed!!

This is one of the key goals of the theory of evolution and is a major indication that satan/Lucifer is the major author of this "theory"!! The theory of evolution was designed to eliminate a belief in God (Heavenly Father), Christ (i.e. Jehovah), and Adam and Eve by saying that God does not exist and that humans "evolved" from primates!!

1) Lucifer wants people to believe that God does not exist (at the core of the theory of evolution).
2) Lucifer wants people to believe that Christ was not the son of God (at the core of the theory of evolution).
3) Lucifer wants people to believe that we are not descended from Adam and Eve, but that we are descended from bonobos or some other primate (this eliminates a belief in God or Adam and Eve which is the very core of the theory of evolution today)!!!

I should note that the atheists and evolutionists cannot deny that Jesus Christ was a real person because there are ample documents, other than the Bible, that date back to almost the time of Christ, which mention His life. So the only thing they can say is that Christ was not the Savior of the world.

But He is the Savior!!!

The atheists and evolutionists also cannot deny that the flood of Noah (Noah, also known as the angel Gabriel, was next to Adam in priesthood authority according to LDS documents) was a real event because there is a massive amount of scientific evidence that there was a flood!!! The evangelicals, such as Ken Ham, have done an excellent job of proving there was a flood and that Noah's ark was real.

There is an entire article on this topic:
Article: Why The Theory Of Evolution Attacks Adam And Eve

More About The Tests Of God's Children - Some Of Which We May Not Know About

We assume that the Grand Council was the only test that we were subject to before Adam and Eve were put on this planet. However, there may have been one or more tests even before the Grand Council that we don't know about yet!!!

Considering how long we have existed BEFORE the Grand Council, it is quite possible that we had to pass tests before the Grand Council that we know nothing about.

Let us think about the Grand Council. Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, Caligula, etc. all passed the Grand Council test or they would not have had physical bodies, but they will obviously have a very, very bad day on Judgment Day!!!

Remember, every evil person who has or will live in mortality on this planet voted for Christ in the Grand Council!!!

Do you get the feeling that in order for anyone to return to live with Heavenly Father they must pass through multiple sequential tests!!!

For Latter-Day Saints: I will simply say that there are potentially very powerful tests even in the spirit world (after a person dies they will still live on this planet, but as spirits only - those with physical bodies cannot see those in the spirit world but those in the spirit world can see us)!!!

Why do I point this out??

Every good and evil person who has ever lived on this planet, and who has died, is in the spirit world!!! Going into the spirit world does not change anyone's character!!! Evil people in the physical world (where we live now) will almost certainly be evil people in the spirit world. Even in the spirit world they will likely try to drag others down with them. For example, there is adultery in the spirit world!!!

For example, if a wife is protected by her husband and children in mortality, when she dies (before anyone else in her family dies) she may not be prepared for the temptations in the spirit world!!!

People who excel in the mortal world can miserably fail in the spirit world!!!

The wicked people in the spirit world (perhaps whether they were wicked before the spirit world or not), will go to the Telestial Kingdom, and will not be resurrected until after burning in hell during the thousand years of the Millennium!!!!

The righteous (Celestial) and honorable (Terrestrial) will be resurrected at the Second Coming of Christ. The wicked (Telestial) whether wicked in mortality or wicked in the spirit world, if they do not repent in time, will not be resurrected until after the Millennium.

So the spirit world is another test. But it is not a fair test. A person who is a fifth generation Mormon, who lives with their family in the spirit world, is far less likely to commit adultery in the spirit world than a convert to the church in mortality who lives in a foreign country in the spiriit world where the church is non-existent!!!

I will also mention that there is a massive amount of missionary work going on in the spirit world, so for some people there are opportunities to progress in the spirit world and there are also opportunities in the spirit world for people to dig a deeper hole for them on Judgment Day!!!

The Second Coming Of Christ

The Second Coming of Christ is essentially "Judgment Day." That is the point at which the line is drawn in the sand as to where we will spend eternity!!! It is also called Judgment Day.

"The final resurrection, or resurrection of the unjust, will occur at the end of the Millennium. In the words of the apocalypse, 'the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished' (Rev. 20:5). This last resurrection will include those destined for the telestial glory and perdition." See:
Article: Resurrection

In short, those going to the Celestial or Terrestrial kingdoms will be resurrected at the beginning of the Millennium and will stay on this planet which will be Celestialized!!! Those going to the Telestial kingdom will burn in hell for 1,000 years on some other planet before they are resurrected. The Sons of Perdition will burn in hell forever but I do not know their location after the Second Coming.

So there will be at least two resurrections: one at the time of the Second Coming and one at the end of the Millennium (which begins at the Second Coming).

MY POINT IS THIS: a person can be fully qualified for the Celestial kingdom at the time of their death, but because of their behavior while in the spirit world they can end up in the Telestial Kingdom forever!!!

The phrase "Endure to the End" should be stated: "Endure To The Second Coming!!! This is because our eternal fate is not determined when we die (in most cases), it is determined at the time of the Second Coming!!!

In fact, many others will be go to hell because of a concept in the Bible that I call: "Murder by not living the Golden Rule!!" This concept comes from the Bible: Luke 16:19-31, which is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man went to hell!! Why?? The rich man did not beat Lazarus yet the rich man went to hell. Why? I call the reason he went to hell: murder by not living the Golden Rule!! The beggar died because the rich man ignored him even though the rich man probably saw Lazarus every day (Lazarus sat by his gate).

So think of our existence as a sequence of tests:
1) The Grand Council (which happened before Adam and Eve were put on this planet),
2) The spirit world before we were born into mortality (i.e. the pre-existence),
3) Mortality,
4) The spirit world after physical death (yes, this is another test).

But there may have been a sequence of one or two or one hundred tests before the Grand Council!!!!

When will the tests end for everyone?? Probably when we are resurrected. When we are resurrected we will have a permanent body and we will likely know all things (if we are resurrected at the Celestial or Terrestrial level).

But I should also mention that there are some people, who were so valiant in the pre-existence that they were judged too good for this planet and they die before the age of eight and go directly into heaven!!! Some religions have taught that those who die before the age of 8 go to hell, but in fact those who die before the age of 8 where too holy and too pure to behold the ways of man and thus God does not allow them to live long enough to behold the evil that exists on this planet!!! I have granddaughter in this category. I look forward to meeting her when I die if I am allowed to (I might not be good enough to be allowed to meet her)!!!

Many have died young, and many will yet die young, because they were too holy, too pure, too good to behold the ways of evil men!! These are those who die before the age of 8 or they never attain the mentality and maturity of someone who lives to the age of 8 (e.g. the severely mentally retarded)!!! These are already qualified for Celestial glory!!!

Final Comments

Spirits cannot be created or destroyed, so our spirits have existed forever already!!! So there was an eternity of time even before the Grand Council!! We do not know if there were any tests before the Grand Council, but there may have been many tests to even get to the Grand Council!!! We just don't know.

Here is a scholarly article for Latter-Day Saints on the subject of the Grand Council, etc. etc.
"Ye Really Are Gods": A Response to Michael Heiser concerning the LDS Use of Psalm 82 and the Gospel of John

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